The HR Life Podcast

Tony Benjamin (0:6.637)
Welcome to the HR life podcast, a show about the work life experience of those of us in human resources and business leadership. Your hosts are Tony Benjamin, the humble owner of the grain strategic HR consulting and Stephen Big deal Smith, fame national speaker and author of the hiring tree. Hi, Steve, how you doing?

Steven Smith (0:30.067)
Wow, that's a new introduction. That's awesome. You should.

Tony Benjamin (0:33.299)
Exactly. I might change it up every time. Who knows? We'll see how that goes. All right. Without any further delay, we've got Becca Mark with us tonight. Hi, Becca.

Beca Mark (0:44.658)
Hi Tony.

Tony Benjamin (0:46.263)
So I'm really glad Becca's here. We're going to get into Becca in just a second here because everything about Becca is cool. And you can just pipe in any time you want though, Becca, at any point. So this is episode number two. And we'll have to think up a creative name for it, like em meetings, the big deal people, Antoni or something like that. That'll be the right thing to do.

Beca Mark (0:53.950)
Ha ha!

Steven Smith (1:10.190)
What about like the mega Star Wars or something? I don't know. just...

Tony Benjamin (1:13.559)
Ooh, yep, that'll... Right. Right.

Beca Mark (1:14.398)
that would combine your favorite worlds. Yeah.

Steven Smith (1:16.790)
I know.

Beca Mark (1:20.032)
But you're moving, no tree behind you.

Steven Smith (1:22.602)
Oh, Sam, it is what it is.

Tony Benjamin (1:23.843)
Yeah, normally, normally, Steven, the in the video that we have between all of us has a Star Wars tree behind him. And that's that's not there because he's getting ready to move. So yeah, all year long with Yoda. It's a conversation starter. So anyways, oh, I forgot to do this. We need to officially welcome Becca to the podcast.

Steven Smith (1:29.518)
Mm-hmm.

Beca Mark (1:31.008)
All year long.

Tony Benjamin (1:44.259)
There we go. Everyone loves Becca, so we got to get the full the full effect there of the whole crowd. That's right. Our studio audience that fades out, so that's that's right. That's that's it. Yeah, yeah. So, OK, well, before we before we get into anything else, Steve, anything going on right now for you that you want to tell us about?

Steven Smith (1:51.175)
And by the way, that is our studio audience. And so we appreciate them being here.

Steven Smith (2:1.006)
It's pretty impressive, I know.

Steven Smith (2:13.656)
I got so much going on.

Tony Benjamin (2:14.179)
You gonna be speaking around? Well, yes, but are you gonna be speaking around anywhere or doing anything like that?

Steven Smith (2:19.374)
So not right now because we had the merger recently and uh with iSolve kind of taking over, they've asked me to kind of put a pause on some of the speaking stuff because they're trying to determine what we're going to do. And so we got National Shurm coming up here. We're in June. In fact, they just, I don't know if you guys saw, but they just announced that the main speaker is no longer who it is. It is now Jason Sudeikis.

Beca Mark (2:42.328)
They're giving him another chance. uh

Steven Smith (2:43.890)
Yeah, well, and what's funny about that is it kind of caused some controversy on some of the LinkedIn and some of the social channels today. I'm part of this Facebook book group that has 30,000 people in it where we all talk about HR stuff. And oh my gosh, it blew up today. um I don't know why, because I'm like, Jesus, why would we even be mad about him coming and speaking in national? I'm just jealous because I'm going to miss it. I don't know. Anyway, I was kind of... uh
taking it back a little bit I was like let's not complain here let's be excited about the fact that you get to meet him so anyway he should he should he you know they have I don't know I've been a speaker I mean I've only had to cancel one of my speaking gigs once and I got I was so sick and so that's why right and so I totally get it you know things happen and we get sick or just even sometimes whether I almost miss one of my conferences

Beca Mark (3:18.740)
Hopefully he shows this time. That's all. think.

Tony Benjamin (3:21.689)
Wow, wow, there we go.

Steven Smith (3:39.982)
where I was speaking simply because of the weather and I was in a state, you two states away and I just ended up running a car and driving all night. And I made it and they have no clue that that's what I did, right? But it was almost one of those things where I had to cancel last minute. So I get it, know, stuff happens. Sometimes it's completely out of your control, so.

Beca Mark (3:51.560)
No, yeah, yeah.

Beca Mark (4:1.588)
Yeah, last year, do you know what happened last year? I don't know if that's for this podcast, but last year he was, he was so, yes. So last year, last year he was Jason Sudeikis was, I was so excited because I was in Chicago and I was so excited to see him love Ted Lasso, et cetera. I still love him, but he just canceled last minute. And then we all found out he was two blocks away at the game, the basketball game, just watching the game.

Steven Smith (4:6.186)
Oh, I don't... Do you know? Because I don't.

Tony Benjamin (4:6.637)
Now what happened last year?

Steven Smith (4:30.380)
What? I didn't know that. Of I wasn't in Chicago last year either.

Beca Mark (4:31.858)
And then that's what he was doing. Yeah. So we all saw him on TV that night and that's, oh, that's where he was. Oh, okay.

Steven Smith (4:37.686)
Wild.

Steven Smith (4:42.306)
Maybe that's why there's so much controversy today, because they're thinking he's going to go to some basketball game again or something.

Tony Benjamin (4:42.479)
That's the problem with TV.

Beca Mark (4:48.212)
Yeah, and it was last minute and didn't send. I could see, uh okay, so he was supporting, it's because he was following every single game. Who was it, Caitlin? What's her last name? The...

Tony Benjamin (4:48.707)
Yep, that's.

Steven Smith (4:58.816)
Oh yeah, yeah, Caitlin Clark, yeah.

Tony Benjamin (4:59.183)
Caitlin Clark.

Beca Mark (5:0.672)
Caitlin Clark, yeah. So he is like following and so supportive of Caitlin Clark. And then I thought um he could have spun it like, of course we want to be supportive of women and like a majority of HR professionals that were there. We want to be supportive. Like he could have spun it a little bit better. think the PR could have been better, but that's where he was. But it's good. He was supporting, but anyway.

Tony Benjamin (5:19.705)
This is a footnote, by the way. We love shurm. Everything shurm does is awesome. Shurm. Johnny C. Taylor. If you would like to sponsor this podcast, please contact me. Tony at the Grange LLC.com.

Beca Mark (5:26.792)
sure yeah

Steven Smith (5:35.308)
You know, Becca, I don't know if you know this, I've only done this a few times with Tony now, and this is the second recording we've done, but whenever he talks like that and he's putting in a play like that, his voice gets really low like this, and then he starts talking. oh

Tony Benjamin (5:46.937)
the official it's the official commentary of the podcast. It's the it's the official on the record pod commentary of the podcast. We

Steven Smith (5:50.934)
It's just funny.

Beca Mark (5:58.016)
you mentioned that I mean we can see each other but maybe there's not recording that will be for future podcasts like to see the video or whatnot but everyone needs to know how legit you look and are so the voice goes right along with it this is I'm pretty I feel pretty privileged to be here so

Tony Benjamin (6:4.139)
Oh, maybe, maybe in the future, maybe.

Tony Benjamin (6:11.535)
uh Wow.
Wow, that's cool. All right, so everybody, this is Becca Mark. She is the owner and CEO of Megastar HR, and she's a really cool person. I first met Becca when I was chairing the Work Elevated Conference back in 22. Becca came in. We were building the team that was going to run the conference, and we were short marketing people.

Steven Smith (6:16.962)
There you go, Tony.

Tony Benjamin (6:44.271)
uh So that we didn't have to resort to putting flyers on cars and stuff around town. We, uh, in the past, yes, she was out. Anybody with that? Um, anyways, to avoid that sort of thing, we were looking around for people to help with marketing and Becca had the coolest team around. So she volunteered her, uh her marketing people to come and join us and, um, had lots of our, our standard marketing meetings were at nine o'clock at night. um

Steven Smith (6:49.356)
Which we did. Sorry.

Tony Benjamin (7:12.591)
I think they were at nine or nine thirty something like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I would I would go out on my back porch and do it so it wouldn't disturb anybody. But there you go. That was the that was it. So there you go everybody. That's back a mark back at. Why don't you tell us a little bit about you. Well let's back up. Why don't you start with tell us a little bit about Megastar H.R. and then a little bit about you.

Beca Mark (7:14.250)
Yeah, nine every Tuesday, yeah.

Steven Smith (7:15.790)
They were late, yeah, I remember.

Beca Mark (7:38.208)
Okay, Megastar uh pitch is like people, companies outsource their HR or their payroll and or they're recruiting to us. And so uh I guess with my background, uh we started about four years ago and I was VP of HR. Anyway, I don't know how you want me to go about giving my background, but I, yeah.

Tony Benjamin (8:0.429)
Yeah, yeah, but no, that's that's awesome. So you okay, but tell us about Megastar first. And then you then I want you to get into the all the CD details of your rise to power.

Steven Smith (8:11.128)
Yeah.

Beca Mark (8:11.466)
Okay, yeah, yeah, that's a great way to phrase it. I, Megastory Char, love it. I have a great team and we work with companies. um I've always, my hope.
um career I've always worked with one company and I've just worked for the one company and now it's been the the most I would say like meaningful slash rewarding thing to work with like a bunch of missions a bunch of companies doing amazing things so um people can basically turn on three different levers with us you want just HR support we can help you if you even if it's just a HR project or anything we can do it fractionally but payroll also we are
like to say we're the solution that keeps the uh we're an ASO or administrative service organization not a PEO and so we keep we help uh payroll providers yeah payroll fighters and benefit brokers they get to keep their clients because we're a solution that someone can have internal HR not internal we're external but have it as if as if they're internal so I like yeah I don't know

Tony Benjamin (9:3.887)
Good, we all hate PEOs.

Tony Benjamin (9:15.983)
Right, right.
Right, right.

Steven Smith (9:19.438)
So do you partner with companies and sell some of their products and services to that client or they already have services and so therefore you just kind of help them? I'm just curious just to pick your brain a

Beca Mark (9:31.722)
That's a great question. And I like to not, I mean, I like to say I'm agnostic or totally neutral because every solution is a pro and a con depending on your company or there are pros and cons. So we want every payroll provider to refer to us. We want every broker to refer to us. So we are not in the habit of recommending proactively recommending solutions. It's if someone does want like, Hey, I'm thinking about a new broker or I'm thinking about a new payroll provider. We'll give them at least three options to
think about and then and help them do like a really kind of robust RFP process to make sure they get what they really need because there's pros and cons for every yeah

Tony Benjamin (10:9.827)
Yeah, that's what I do too. I do a list of three to five. Yep, yep, that's exactly right.

Steven Smith (10:14.050)
I know those needs analysis I think are really important.

Tony Benjamin (10:17.601)
And you know what the problem of giving advice is that sometimes people take it. so I don't want to be accountable for some brokers or mistakes that happen or whatever.

Beca Mark (10:28.104)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, great point. You know, you're in this world, Tony, and Steve is the provider. So it's on multiple fronts, right? So it's,

Tony Benjamin (10:30.916)
Yeah.

Steven Smith (10:35.224)
I am the provider that you are very true. I have a lot of HR consultants that refer to me all the time throughout the country. And so I get it. You gotta be a rock star provider to even get their attention, which that's the way it should be personally. That's just my opinion. So I get it.

Tony Benjamin (10:36.857)
Kuku Kuchube.

Tony Benjamin (10:54.671)
Well, that's a perfect definition of Becca Rockstar. She's a mega rock star. That's right. OK, so tell us how did you get into HR, Becca? em Now, I this we should caveat this with the we only we only have the best and the brightest m on this podcast, the just the coolest people ever. So um obviously you're included in that. And so tell us how how did you get into HR? Why HR?

Steven Smith (10:59.682)
That's right.

Beca Mark (11:0.704)
Thank you. Thank you.

Beca Mark (11:12.710)
Oh, thank you.

Beca Mark (11:23.572)
Okay, so it's totally random. Back in, I was...
thought maybe I would go the accounting route. I got a degree in psychology. I didn't know what I wanted to do. Maybe social work, maybe something else. Anyway, but I worked for five summers during my, like in between my undergraduate degree. I worked at this bank, First National Bank of Blayton. And the HR manager was awesome. I watched what she did. I got to be kind of a rover between everything. So I got to see everything she did. And she was, I think she represented the profession well and that she was just such a great person to work with. thought, hey,

Steven Smith (11:33.976)
psychology.

Beca Mark (11:58.866)
That's a I like that. Maybe I'll do that and then I that I got a master's in public administration with an emphasis in HR management, so that's where I Because I hadn't done anything in HR before that so my first HR job was after I got my master's uh Outside of internships I cut my proverbial teeth for Challenger school and and got to work for a private school actually and learned HR

Steven Smith (12:23.532)
My daughter went to Challenger for a while.

Tony Benjamin (12:23.683)
Yeah, my wife. There you go. And my wife, my wife used to teach at Challenger when I met her. She was working at Challenger down at the 13th South in Salt Lake uh School that they have there. And uh I was sick for the first six weeks. I knew my wife because she taught preschool. Right. And so um I was. Yes, I got. Yeah, the first six weeks I knew my wife, I was sick the whole time. So I blame it on.

Beca Mark (12:26.181)
Oh, fun! I love Challenger. Yeah. Oh my goodness!

Beca Mark (12:36.850)
Yeah!

Beca Mark (12:45.405)
Oh, she brought everything home.

Tony Benjamin (12:53.551)
I fell in love with her. caught me at a low
No, if you knew my wife, you'd know it's the opposite of that. Somehow I tricked her into getting hooking up with me. But no, that's pretty cool. OK, so so degree in psychology. um So here I've got this famous story that we were at disrupt HR a few years ago, and someone introduced me to a young lady.
who she said, she said she wants to get into HR. And I said, I says, Okay, she and she said, Why don't you just talk to her, help her out a little bit, maybe, you know, help her network. I said, That's great. So I said, Why do you want to get into HR? And she was a I said, What was your major in school? And she said a communications major. I was like, Okay, okay, that kind of jives, right. And then I says, So why do you want to get into HR? And she says, Because I like people. And of course, I had to burst your bubble right on the spot. So

Beca Mark (13:31.392)
Okay.

Tony Benjamin (13:49.613)
So did does does your degree in psychology help? Does it help?

Beca Mark (13:54.656)
it actually does help. I feel like you're always trying to figure out, I mean, if you can figure out root causes and or why people do certain things then that's you can help them get better. Like a lot of HR is working with employees to help them help themselves and make improvements and yeah I absolutely think it's helped.

Tony Benjamin (14:17.615)
That's really cool. I'm surprised at how often I turn into that with executives where we're talking about it in their employee and they're like, why would they do this? That's stupid. And then you go, well, you need to look at it from their perspective, right? And you start walking through it and then they go, oh, OK, we created this mess. It's not the employee.

Steven Smith (14:37.902)
Hahaha

Beca Mark (14:39.944)
Yeah, people genuinely will rise to expectations and if things aren't set up, anyway, yeah.

Tony Benjamin (14:48.375)
No, that's that's why I'm really the opinion that you should make your performance review system gameable, meaning so that you want your employees to gamify it so that they're trying to manipulate it. And if you do it right, how they manipulate it gives you what you want. Right. So like if you got I mean, if you think about if you had a list of eight things that someone had to do to get a raise, they would check those things off on a list. Right. They just check, check, check, check, check. And you get what you want. So why would you not then give them a raise because they gave you exactly what you wanted.

Beca Mark (15:4.324)
Yeah.

Beca Mark (15:10.837)
Yep.

Steven Smith (15:17.922)
Mm-hmm.

Tony Benjamin (15:18.914)
But it's funny how lots of companies don't want to do that. So it just they don't care.

Steven Smith (15:24.866)
Then everybody will go do it. Everybody will check off the boxes. Imagine that.

Beca Mark (15:27.209)
You

Tony Benjamin (15:28.291)
Right? That's right. Right. Oh, no. And then it's not fair. Right. Yeah. So you get a 20 % boost to your bottom line.

Beca Mark (15:35.402)
Well, that's why they need you, Tony, because then you can create the programs for them. Because a lot of companies just don't know what they don't know. Or it's hard to take the time to do it, because it takes time and effort to really think through it. And so, yeah.

Steven Smith (15:47.266)
Very true.

Tony Benjamin (15:49.763)
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, that's that's why they always come back to the expectations thing. Did you meet exceed or not meet expectations? Right? drives me nuts. Okay. All right. So that helps a little bit. So um and now you have you have you have a pretty cool list of clients on your on your website. Can I can I say, can I say at least one name that's like impressed me? Am I okay to say that? So like

Beca Mark (15:56.690)
Or yeah, or, oh no. It's... Yes.

Steven Smith (15:56.814)
You

Beca Mark (16:10.368)
Yeah.

Beca Mark (16:14.696)
Sure, yeah.

Tony Benjamin (16:16.661)
How did you get maybe you decide how much of this you can say, but how the heck did you get to be Brandon Sanderson's HR person?

Beca Mark (16:24.771)
So cool, all right?

Tony Benjamin (16:26.057)
I've met him a few times. He's a great person, but I'm that's really cool that you're his HR person.

Beca Mark (16:31.986)
Yeah, so um the bookkeeper that I met, tried to, okay, in starting Megastar HR, I tried to do...
everything networking wise you could possibly think of and try to figure it out because I'm an HR professional. I'm not a sales and marketing professional. So one of the areas, one place I went was I joined BNI. I don't know if you've ever joined that. And so I would go to these weekly meetings and I, the group I was with was fantastic. But there was a bookkeeper in the group who I've since, he's my bookkeeper now. And then, um
He's they were his client and then they need the support. em Yeah, setting up some I mean I cannot uh neither confirm nor deny anything they needed from it anyway, but anyway, we we helped we helped out with some payroll and and other things and yeah, it's pretty great, but they have They have I mean the dragon steel like we we haven't done anything necessarily with a direct

Steven Smith (17:18.702)
H.O.

Tony Benjamin (17:18.841)
Dang it, that was close.

Beca Mark (17:33.290)
company, we more helped out directly. So yeah, it's pretty awesome. Yeah. I love it too.

Tony Benjamin (17:36.707)
Okay, I got you. All right. That's pretty cool. Now, so let me Yeah, let's let's talk big picture here for just a second. uh So everyone famously knows my opinion of most HR people and and and how awesome they all are. So I'm curious, Becca, uh talk to me, what do you think the state of of HR is right now? Like, what? What is it? What is
What is HR's role right now? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it going in the right direction? Is it not? What do you think?

Beca Mark (18:12.288)
from what I've seen, I think it's going all in, I don't know if the right direction, but going in a direction where HR leaders have been, yes, but it's going in a direction. But it's, I see everywhere HR is becoming more of a, you hear it like seat at the table or whatnot, becoming more of a strategic partner. And I really am seeing that. But I would say in the world of,

Tony Benjamin (18:18.935)
That was insightful right there. I don't know if it's going in the right direction, but...

Steven Smith (18:23.595)
I'm this way.

Tony Benjamin (18:25.422)
Yeah.

Beca Mark (18:39.840)
Startups or the smaller companies that I'm working with more directly sometimes they do not understand a lot of people still do not understand the value of HR and what it can bring and what it does and So there's still a lot of education um but I everywhere HR is Like I don't know how to describe it what I'm seeing but it's in every direction it's just becoming more and more influential It's not just like checking the boxes. It's okay. I'm gonna be that real strategic partner with that manager to help them
help their team do what they needed to do.

Tony Benjamin (19:13.379)
Yeah, no, think that's a... Steve, were you gonna say something? Were you gonna chime in there? You looked like you a...

Steven Smith (19:18.272)
I was just going to say that's that's kind of what I'm seeing too. I work with a lot of smaller companies as well that we do have quite a few startups. I think it's there are certain industries that are prone to not really value HR in that sense. At least that's my experience. And you're right, those smaller companies, don't often know until they get in trouble.
I think a lot of these smaller companies that wait until they get in trouble is such a dumb idea because, you know, HR is like an insurance policy, right? You get your insurance policy not because there's a fire going on right now, but because you're trying to prevent the fire. If it does happen that you've got some coverage there and they just, they always wait till the fire goes off. that's what I don't understand sometimes with some of these smaller businesses. And I get part of it is affordability, right? Part of it is they're strapped with funds and...

Beca Mark (19:38.676)
Yep.

Steven Smith (20:6.232)
They're trying to pinch and save wherever they can. get it. I helped start Applicant Pro from scratch, right? I remember those days heavily. And so yeah, I'm with you on that. You're right. There is a lot more seats at the table than there has been in the past, which is great because I think HR has a lot better ability to show their value in that sense. But some of those smaller companies, they still struggle. And I think it's because they don't have a true HR person in place.

Beca Mark (20:12.138)
Yeah.

Beca Mark (20:34.590)
Yeah, the go-to I see is, okay, let's have that finance individual take it. so what, yep, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. It's one or the other. so then, but I'm, I think what I'm seeing, at least in the companies that we get to serve, it's people are choosing to make the move earlier and on, earlier and earlier on. So even finance professionals realize there's, like they make the case earlier and earlier.

Steven Smith (20:38.304)
Mm-hmm. The CFO or the office administrator? Like the administrator is another common one I see. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm.

Tony Benjamin (20:39.789)
Yes, yes, yes.

Beca Mark (21:2.880)
least what I'm seeing. So it's going in the right direction, know, for HR.

Tony Benjamin (21:8.079)
That's, that's really cool for you to hear from you that you feel like finance people are pushing that. And I and you can explain a little bit more about that. It's so I'm doing a little bit of legal work now. um On the plaintiff side, I'm working with Pearson Butler to in South Jordan to do some of that stuff. And it shocks me how much of the problems come from finance from CFOs who don't understand from accounting that wants the

Beca Mark (21:15.241)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (21:37.919)
they are still stuck in the mindset that HR is the they're an extension of the finance department or they're an extension of accounting or their administrative role that does nothing but uh paperwork, right? And compliance. And if you get outside your lane, boy, they jump on you really fast. So that's good to hear. I don't know. I tend to think, okay, everyone who's a CFO listening, why would they listen to me?
But if all the CFLs listening are gonna roll their eyes at this, like I bump into this quite a bit. I bump into two things. I bump into the boundary becomes weird, gets weird with finance, meaning that every once in they're like, you deal with this or you take this over. um You pay that supplemental life bill. You handle this. And I'm like, why would I pay a bill?

Beca Mark (22:6.248)
Hahaha!

Tony Benjamin (22:31.347)
I can see me making sure no one's on there that isn't supposed to be on there or vice versa, but you want me to pay the bill? You want me to attract that bill? You want me to take credits for paying earlier? Like that's ridiculous, right? So there's a whole bunch of that going on and they just, don't know, my experience with this is they don't get it. They just don't get it. And a lot of the legal work stuff I do, it involves finance and them not liking the fact that they're getting pushed around a little bit or.
They can't push people around. That's probably the better way to say it.

Beca Mark (23:1.588)
Interesting. Yeah. No, but even with the bills, like I'll take, I'll take it because then it gets me.

Tony Benjamin (23:4.687)
But you're seeing.

Beca Mark (23:10.964)
getting more, I'm more into the business and if you can prove that you're a trusted partner with finance, then your life becomes very easy. So if it takes doing that bill or whatnot, even though that's not something that's customary to be an accounts payable clerk, but I'll take it because then they can trust me to do a good job. Then it seems to, in every case, uh I've taken that on. ah They'll trust me with more and more and more.
which is great.

Steven Smith (23:41.038)
That's a really good point.

Tony Benjamin (23:43.065)
No, it is a good point, it might also be a bad point. The last thing I want them to do is trust me with more and more of their bills. But, uh well, I think, and I was, what I was thinking the whole time Becca was saying that is, this is Becca's, this is why Becca's nicer than I am, why she's more popular than me, because she does stuff like that. That's right, that's right.

Steven Smith (23:59.224)
Well, and this is probably why she's been so successful, right? Cause she's, she's, she's really built up the business over the last couple of years as, both of us have watched her and, here's, here's the why, right? She, she's willing to go above and beyond what the typical organization might need simply because if this is my foot in the door and this is how I prove my value, I'm going to go ahead and do it. Uh, you know, think that's a testament to not only a personality, but the character and the, uh, the, just who you are as an individual. So.

Tony Benjamin (24:7.214)
Right, yeah.

Steven Smith (24:28.814)
two does there.

Tony Benjamin (24:30.447)
So let me. Oh, you're me. Yeah, yeah, you couldn't. You couldn't see that. You couldn't see that on the audio. She's she's holding him off with one hand and waving it on more than the other one. That was great. That's really good. Let me ask you, though, Beckett, do you think that that most most HR people, let's just say in the United States, do most HR people understand the role or do you think they just don't get it?

Beca Mark (24:30.528)
Steve, stop, stop. I mean, yeah. Oh wait, wait, stop, yeah.

Steven Smith (24:32.205)
uh Oh man, I made her blush, oops.

Steven Smith (25:0.590)
Wow, dead silence.

Beca Mark (25:4.636)
Okay, if we think like Chad GPT, okay, I can put in there what does an HR person do? then it, mean, people know what HR generally does. I think there's still, uh there's so many functions that fall into one person that I believe, I don't know, I don't know. I don't have a really good answer to this, but I think.
think people do. think that's why we're becoming better and better strategic partners because we understand what HR really, like they're true of value of HR. And I think, and we're willing to take it on. But I think we have a lot of maxed professionals that would want to do more, like to do more, would want to be more, but it's just almost an impossible thing because there's so much to do. em So much jammed into the profession.

Tony Benjamin (25:57.017)
No, I get it. think that's if you put that into chat GPT, I tend to think that a lot of what you get are the tasks that HR does, right? Not necessarily what it is, because you get process benefits and onboard people and make sure they're signed up and do I nines and that sort of stuff. Right. And I always I always tell people I don't know that that's necessarily HR. Those are tasks we do. I'm not going to deny that. Right. Those are things that we do.
But that's kind of like an accountant to who does AP, for example, right? That doesn't that's that's a task, or, or even reconciling an account might be something that a staff accountant does. But that's not their job, right? I mean, if if if that's all you're getting out of your finance department, they're selling you short.

Beca Mark (26:42.644)
Yeah!
So I'd love to hear from you what you think HR is or what HR does or whatnot. So this is how we've defined it at Megastar HR. It's like three pronged. One is a strategic partner. uh
And we're going to help you to be there to help you make the best decision that you can make and help you workforce plan, help you do anything like that. Like anything you need, we're going to be that partner with you um to help managers help themselves. And then the second thing we do, it's that engagement champion. Like how can we maximize the, some people don't like this term, but the human capital that exists in the organization. How can we maximize that? So we're going to be that engagement champion because engaged employees.
are productive, profitable employees. And then the third piece is though, I mean, you can't ever let go and maybe it's a base requirement, but it's that proactive risk advisor. And so we're not, we don't make decisions in HR. don't make the decisions. We advise and the leaders, the managers make the decisions and then they have to own it what they choose. that, so I don't know, but I'd love to hear, like, I don't know if that's what you mean by what HR is, because that's how we've

Steven Smith (27:49.518)
accountability.

Tony Benjamin (27:50.877)
Right, right.

Beca Mark (27:57.030)
kind of defined it like this is what we're coming in to do and help with a company. Even if it's just pushing buttons in the payroll system, we're going to watch how we can do that in a way that's in partnership with finance, in partnership with the managers. We're going to be that engagement champion. How can we maximize the employees even with that simple payroll process? And then, OK, how are we going to protect? But I don't know. Yeah. oh

Tony Benjamin (28:19.907)
You know, you, you and I, I think we're thinking along the same lines there. Um, cause it might, I, I summarize, right? If you can get it down to a slogan, right? HR is the art of management.
And what I mean by that is everything that goes into managing your human capital and making it as productive and as efficient as possible belongs to human resources. And then it has certain tools that it utilizes to do that, right? So one of the biggest tool that it has is culture, right? The number one thing, because I tell people if you have compliance issues going on in your company, those are symptoms, they're not the cause, right?

Beca Mark (28:47.913)
Yeah.

Beca Mark (28:53.310)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (29:1.807)
em If you got issues going on like that like harassment, that's a symptom. It's not a cause um That you have a cultural problem going on um The second one right then of course is leadership development and guiding your managers along so that they they change their mindset they change their paradigm and and act differently and you do that by strategic vision mission and value statements that are real um

Beca Mark (29:2.758)
Yes, great point.

Tony Benjamin (29:29.511)
The first thing I do with clients is I go in and I say, Hey, what are your vision, mission and values? And do you talk about these or these just a plaque? We all seen them, right? They're plaque on the wall in the lobby and no one reads them known remembers them, including the CEO, because the CEO wrote them so that they could get that task out of the way.
um And they talk about values and they're all that but they rarely match what's on that plaque. So that's that's right. I bet the way to get those managers to jump on board is to get them to catch the vision. And I think that's very difficult. I think it's a matter of fact to your point earlier, Steve, are you talking about how they do it later? I think it's harder and harder to do the longer they're there before you institute that program. Like I had clients in the past. em
and I would tell them I'm worried and they're like, why? I go, because none of your managers are quitting. Like, I'm really nervous that we're not pushing that vision fast enough or hard enough because your managers aren't uncomfortable. But that process, and then what you hope is then for managers, if they lead a manage right, then it goes down to employees and those employees then.
um are engaged because the culture reinforces that behavior and they start solving problems that 10 years ago or 20 years ago, we would have expected a manager to solve. They are solving it on the front lines. It never has to get to a manager or at the very least, or the very most they say, hey, approve this action I want to take. um And you hope that's what engages it, right? And I always talk about Sonny Giles and her book and she talks a lot about this. I love Sonny's stuff, but
that mindset has to change to where they're solving your problems for you to get it there. And so yeah, that's okay, we love sherm. We just want that on the record. We love sherm. But you know, I went to I went to sherm national for the first time a couple of years ago. And all the things that worry me about HR were on full display all over that place. And it really, it really freaked me out. Like, I thought I was like, Oh, I thought we were much farther along than this.

Beca Mark (31:18.226)
I do love shrimp.

Steven Smith (31:34.606)
You know, it's interesting, Tony, you talk about this. Several years ago, company, you remember those old T-shirts, you know, keep calm? We had a shirt that said, keep calm, resource humans.

Beca Mark (31:42.591)
Yeah.

Steven Smith (31:46.642)
And the reason that shirt was so popular is because that was a problem. You know how many of my clients I'll ask them when we're doing kind of uh a needs audit is what we call it, when we're trying to figure out where they're at, what are you guys doing? And I will ask them, well, help me understand your core values right now. What are your top three core values that resonate with you?
And it amazes me how many of the professionals I speak with every day don't even know. They don't even know their own core values. And here we are in the HR world and we don't even know our own core values. How in the world can we expect our team to resonate with that and to understand those core values? So one of the coolest experiments and one of the funnest things I was ever involved with was at ApplicantPro about five to seven years into the company, we decided to create our own core values and mission statement.
and all that. And rather than just sit down as an executive team and here's the list and let's, let's, you know, send this out there and put it on plaques. We actually got every employee in the organization to tell us.
What do you think are the core values here? What resonates with you? And they ended up giving us the list that we ended up finalizing and then selecting from there. And I honestly, and I talk about this a little bit in my book, but I think one of the most valuable things you can do is to really sit down with your employees and have them tell you what they think the core, even if you don't have any, or if you do have any, what are the core values that you see here? And I can guarantee that'll change how an organization

Beca Mark (32:54.899)
Interesting.

Steven Smith (33:21.936)
actually sees themselves and how they're like, you know what, if these are the core values that our employees are seeing, then obviously that's something that resonates with everybody. We should own that. We should like tap into that. And that was one of the coolest things that happened when I was at Applicant Pro. And it was just cool because everybody was on board with it. They read them, they said, oh yeah, those are some of the ones that I recommended. They just got excited and it was probably one the most beautiful things I've ever seen in an organization. I know that was internal and it was a company
that I helped build and so I was a little you know excited about that but I'm telling you when I when I see those organizations that that have done it effectively and know and know their own values and actually live them so much better so much better and that's what HR should be I think in part like when you say let's define HR what is HR HR should know their own core values they should live those core values because that's what inspires others to want to live them too

Tony Benjamin (33:52.110)
No.

Beca Mark (33:53.898)
Sony.

Tony Benjamin (34:20.015)
Thanks for

Beca Mark (34:20.202)
Yeah, I would want to know too, like I'm just fascinated by this and it's what I think about when I have nothing else to think about, you know? And so once you have the list though, you have your core values, you know what your mission, vision, values are. How do you instill it in the organization? How do you remind people? How do you get it to be infused within the organization?
Or how did you do it at applicant pro? And Tony, I'm sure you have a thoughts. Yeah.

Steven Smith (34:50.350)
So we.
We did it with our activities, the activities that we had. So anytime there was a company activity where we were all getting together, barbecue, you know, during certain holidays when you have certain events come up, we would always re-emphasize those core values. And then what was really cool, Tracy Kalmar was our HR director for years and she was so phenomenal at this. She created these little stickers that had each of our core values. We had eight core values and she had those little stickers that you could actually put on your water bottles. Well, one year we had this water
challenge and a ton of the employees got those those nice water bottles, right? Well, they got these nice water bottles and then you could earn these stickers and the only way you could earn these stickers was somebody else in the organization had to call you out on that value. So and so demonstrated this value this week and I want to nominate her or him for this particular core value sticker. And so it was it was a way for us to not only get all of the employees to to talk about each other.

Beca Mark (35:36.049)
Oh, that's cool.

Steven Smith (35:51.394)
But specifically, they were using the actual core value and the definition of that core value to give that recognition. And I'll tell you, that was probably one of the most effective ways that I've ever seen an HR person whom I have a ton of respect for in Tracy Comer. And it was phenomenal. I'm hoping I can get her on this podcast one of these days, because she's just so cool, right?

Beca Mark (36:11.264)
who you should. I love that. That's fabulous.

Tony Benjamin (36:11.683)
be

Steven Smith (36:14.240)
But she was so good at that. So to answer your question, Becca, I would say go talk to her. And I can introduce you. But she was so good at doing that type of thing when she was here. And I just.
I just admire her because I watched it unfold over the course of several years and it was phenomenal how much the employees just kind of grasped that and said, yes, these are our core values and we're gonna talk about each other using these core values to define each other. And it was phenomenal, it really was, yeah.

Beca Mark (36:45.824)
So great, what a great, great way.

Steven Smith (36:49.324)
Yeah, so anyway, answer your question.

Tony Benjamin (36:51.183)
That's it. That's.

Beca Mark (36:51.742)
Yeah, that's a great, great way.

Tony Benjamin (36:54.800)
That's all a bit cutesy though, right? I mean...

Steven Smith (36:57.208)
You know, it's cutesy, Tony, but I'm telling you, when you have everybody, keep in mind, 83 % of our employees are female, right? Which is uncommon for a tech company, because we are a tech company. But regardless of that, I found myself wanting to get involved and wanting to participate and wanting to do that.

Tony Benjamin (37:6.401)
Okay.
Right, right. oh Gotcha, okay. You and Minky Couture are headed down that road. I gotcha.

Steven Smith (37:22.400)
Regardless of gender or anything like that, right? was it one of those things where yeah, I was a little cutesy But man, I wanted those stickers I wanted to get one of those stickers so I could put it on my computer or put it on for me It was on my computer because I didn't have a water bottle But I just wanted to have one and I don't know I just those types of things I think as cutesy as they sound or as cutesy as they may be it
motivated everybody to just talk about one another and talk about them in the mindset of this is our core value, this is why we live this. We would also, once a week they would pick a story that people would share in our little chat area. had like, was kind of, I was called it face work. I have no idea what it's called.
I always called it face work because it was like Facebook for work. Maybe it was called workplace, I can't remember. But we would do comments and leave pictures and share stuff with each other all the time. And when we would do that, we would also take client comments. And we had a whole dedicated section for client comments. And we would actually share some of these client comments and say, oh, that demonstrates this core value. And so when you have people purposely thinking about the core values,

Beca Mark (38:10.856)
Okay.

Steven Smith (38:31.106)
Pointing out the core values and not only team members but also what clients are saying, it was such an effective way to just instill within everybody, even the new people that came in, that this is why these are our core values.

Tony Benjamin (38:43.279)
Oh, that's good. I that. And I wasn't trying to I wasn't trying to beat up on anybody. But I like playing devil's advocate a little bit with that, because because I'm with you, right. And it's it's very easy to start thinking of creative ways to do things, to get people's attention. um But then you always you always have those times where, right, you have pushback and stop being so cutesy with me. Stop trying to manipulate me. And right, right, right. Yeah. uh

Steven Smith (38:49.415)
I know, I know.

Steven Smith (38:58.402)
Mm-hmm.

Steven Smith (39:6.648)
Well, and you don't want it to become a distraction either, right? That's one of the issues is you don't want it to be so distracting that it takes people away from what we're there to do. And that is to work. That is to help the organization be successful. And so there were times where sometimes it would be out of line, if you will, or distracting. so, I don't know, that's why Tracy was so good. She would just pull it right back in. Like, we don't have to be distracting guys. Let's get the job done, right? So.

Beca Mark (39:9.887)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (39:19.855)
Yeah.

Beca Mark (39:29.076)
Yeah.

Beca Mark (39:32.672)
So Tony, what are non cutesy ways to do this?

Steven Smith (39:35.296)
Yeah, let me let me hear it. Good question.

Tony Benjamin (39:36.815)
So the example, the example I like to throw at and by the way, I think, I think those values are part of building culture. Right. And I really, there was a presentation last year at, at a week on our work, elevated conference where they were, they, the guy was up at the beginning and he was presenting. He's like, no one really knows what the definition of culture is. And I, I think popularly, I think that's very true. I of course have a definition.

Steven Smith (39:47.053)
Mm-hmm.

Tony Benjamin (40:6.615)
of culture and that is it is the sum of all human interactions associated with a company right so that comes that that's the interaction within the company and it comes with your interaction with your clients or it even comes with you interacting with your neighbors when they know you work for a specific company right all of that all together equals culture and it's what it is and and so what you're talking about is you're talking about instilling those values deep in the bed of the culture you're embedding them there my my favorite example that I've heard about
this was uh Mountain America when they did their thing. And if I got this story wrong, well, that's tough because this is how I was told it happened. But anyways, right, right. Right. Yeah. So, but well, I know I know the CEO not to name drop Sterling's name and that he should sponsor this podcast. But, know, but anyways, yeah, but but.

Steven Smith (40:45.038)
We'll just have Macu call you, Tony. We'll just get a Macu rep on the podcast. It's that simple.

Beca Mark (40:46.504)
We'll just, yeah. We'll get, yeah, get the Mac, yeah. The VP of HR, come on over.

Beca Mark (41:2.068)
Yeah, he should.

Tony Benjamin (41:4.463)
uh how they did it was they had a weekly staff meeting in every one of their branches, or in their departments, right, and they would have a weekly staff meeting and one person was assigned to talk for three minutes on what one of the values meant to them. And the way I understand it's like the first eight months to a year is just repeating the same thing over and over again, they're reading the definition of it, and then they give it. It was only after it got really boring to do.
that people suddenly started getting creative. And the minute they start to get creative and explain what it really meant to them, where it wasn't wrote or whatever, that's when I think it embedded itself in the culture. Because people would start to say stuff. Well, dang it, you caught me. No, it's, I wasn't thinking cutesy. No, no, it's, that's perfect. That's the right answer. uh It's, it, it, the moment that they began to find analogies in their life, right?

Beca Mark (41:45.536)
So right when I got cutesy.

Beca Mark (41:51.038)
I'm just teasing.

Tony Benjamin (42:2.103)
So you go to church or wherever and you start talking about thing valuable lessons to learn and you always come up with these analogies or whatever. Right. And and you and instantly you you get this um you start to get deeper into people's lives. And I think that's when it entered their culture. And that's like eight months to a year in. And then they did it for a few more years. I think they've stopped now. But the point was as they embedded it in their culture because they so routinely talked about.
that it was and to me that's how you do it. It's constant. It's always there. You're always repeating it. You're always talking about it. It's always there and I think I think that's that's how you do it. Now. Can you cutes if I yes can you game a fight? I think that's a really good way to do it right to game a fight and all that. I think all that's fantastic but I think you embed it by constant reminders of it and it's always there and and then like you said Steve people start recognizing it when it happens right.

Beca Mark (42:46.162)
Yeah.

Steven Smith (42:59.906)
Yeah, because they're looking for it now. Yeah, and they know that, I need to talk about this. I need to come up with an example type thing, you know?

Tony Benjamin (43:0.515)
Hey, that's, yep, yep, exactly. All right.

Tony Benjamin (43:7.311)
That's right. Did you want to say something else about that, Becca?

Steven Smith (43:10.040)
You

Beca Mark (43:10.214)
Yeah, just one other thought uh or comment is with at Megastar HR we do, I mean, it's because what I can control, all our different clients infuse either emission vision values like in different ways. uh And I see it's much more common than it was, let's say 10 years ago, especially 15 years ago. ah So, but what we do is,
Will we started? Okay, four years ago we started and we, you you define the culture. I mean, you define the values, but I'm just guessing almost like it's like, okay, um this is what I want for Megastar HR. But it's been interesting because every single um team meeting since in the last four years, we've had a spotlight on, okay, someone says the mission vision and then just pick one of the values, just pick one of them and to talk about you say whatever you want.
And so, but it's been fascinating to see that like two of the five have really risen to the top. And it's been like, they're talked about 90 % of the time. And one of the values is nimble. And when we first started, thought when we were like the employees and we were talking about like, let's define it, was something that they, they thought, well, I don't know if that's something we should say or do or what we should, you know, but now it's fascinating how they've just embraced it. And that's something that like 90 % of the time that's what they want to talk about.

Steven Smith (44:26.734)
That's cool.

Beca Mark (44:26.912)
Because in a startup, that's what you have to be that agile and you have to be nimble and you have to be able to pivot and you have to be resilient. And so it's really very fun to see when it does take or when it really is infused. It's just really rewarding and fun. yeah. We do every other week, we have a meeting.

Steven Smith (44:43.736)
Well, and how often do you talk about it, Becca? You say, is that a weekly meeting or? Yeah, see, and I think that goes to Tony's point as well. When you when it is front of mind in people's minds and they know that it's coming up, we're going to talk about it again. I think that's where you start helping to define that culture, but let them do it in their way. Let let them explain in their way. Let them share their story. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, that's great.

Beca Mark (45:5.310)
Yeah, because they can choose whatever they want to say. You say whatever you want. You do whatever you want. then anyway, yeah, that's my only other thought. Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (45:14.067)
But conquering uh Eastern Europe and making them do it is probably not one of your values, right? So they can't quite say anything they want, but you know, just maybe, maybe. Hey, okay, now on that note, since I've totally derailed the conversation there, I want to talk about this before we're done and we're getting near the end now. So I want to talk about the role of, and there's so many things, Becca, we'll probably have to have you back on sometimes so that we can get to the other 10 things that I had as possible topics, but.

Steven Smith (45:28.643)
What?

Beca Mark (45:29.664)
Sounds great, sounds great. Oh, okay.

Tony Benjamin (45:43.949)
I wanted to talk to you about the role of HR consultancies today and where you think that's at and where do think it's going? What does that market look like? What's the future hold?

Beca Mark (45:48.746)
Yeah.

Beca Mark (45:56.608)
What I've seen since, I think COVID changed it. So I think COVID, with everything becoming remote in some cases, it changed it to what I've seen since then. Cause I started in 2001 with Megastar HR, right in the middle of it. And it's like now everyone, or 2001, 2021. Yes, I'm so glad you said something.

Steven Smith (46:18.830)
2001, wow. You mean 2021?

Tony Benjamin (46:21.903)
2021 she said a minute ago that she said a minute ago that like 15 years ago and I was like Becca hasn't been in this just look at her she hasn't been in this for 15 years come on we know what's

Beca Mark (46:26.964)
Call! uh

Beca Mark (46:31.904)
No, thank you, thank you. I'll take it. Okay, so no, I'm very optimistic minded and no, 2021, right in middle of COVID. Anyway, but I've seen every single direction, at least what I'm seeing, companies are much more open to having a remote, having remote HR, fractional, even external support. Even five years ago, I don't think it was as much of a...

Steven Smith (46:34.926)
That's okay, I was just curious about the year.

Beca Mark (47:0.052)
Like it it exists and it does, but now it's more and more and more. And I think PEOs have pushed it in that direction in some ways. And then also it's, see HR consultants becoming, even if they're external, I see them becoming more and more part, like actual strategic partners with the company. Even if someone has, I've been surprised by the companies that have enlisted us that even have internal HR teams to just have additional support where I don't know, I think it's becoming more and more.
I don't know why necessarily but the only thing I can point to is like having a remote fractional support. People were looking for the most cost-effective way to do things and now I'm okay with something being remote supporting me and it can actually be a solution.

Tony Benjamin (47:49.935)
That's cool. Yeah, I personally think we're right. We're on the front edge of that wave. So I originally got into it in 2016. And I did it for a couple of years. And then that's how I got hooked up with the superior drilling products. And that was just the best company you could ever work for. And so of course, I was just going to work for them. But I'd you know, now it's six and a half years later, you know, when I when I leave there, it's a it's a it's a different environment.
uh a very, different environment than I think it is now. But I think back then I thought it was the cutting edge. Right now, think um it is the I think we're on the front edge of the wave still, right? You're going to see it for small to medium businesses. And I also think that large corporations really, really big corporations are going to have to reevaluate how they do human resources. I don't think the model that big companies use right now are working.

Beca Mark (48:35.166)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (48:49.159)
this idea where the manager runs everything on a day-to-day basis and he handles discipline and all that and he has a business partner who advises him, but that business partner advises for 500 employees or whatever it is, I don't think that works anymore. I think HR needs to be integrated right down into what happens on a daily basis.

Beca Mark (49:11.198)
Yeah, why don't you think that works anymore?

Tony Benjamin (49:14.159)
Hey, well, first of all, I get lots of complaints about it in my in my legal inbox. I get it all the time. the time. But to go back to what you said, I think.

Beca Mark (49:19.934)
Yeah. Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (49:29.263)
I just, it's too impersonal. The fact that I never see an HR person. So here, Becky, you hit the nail with your forehead when you said this. You said that we're willing to do it remotely and HR can be remote. And I really like that. I think that's absolutely true. I think it's also true that people feel disconnected from HR, right? And having someone that's there that engages them does it.

Steven Smith (49:32.618)
That's what I was going to say. It's too impersonal.

Beca Mark (49:35.871)
Yeah.

Beca Mark (49:42.283)
I've got a big one.

Tony Benjamin (49:57.879)
Honestly, this sounds weird, but I think HR consultants are often the best way to do that. Like, because it frees people up to comment about the company not worried about it being part of the traditional reporting structure. So, uh but then big companies is because they can afford to have it all internally and they do. uh They run into being too impersonal, they too distant too far off.

Steven Smith (50:22.304)
You know you bring up a good point Tony because you know I'm a vendor right so I have clients that talk to me all the time from a vendor relationship but it amazes me how many of my clients that I know are looking for work right now.
or are on the hunt, right? Because they confide and they open up a little bit because they just wanna be personal. They just wanna talk it through with somebody who's in the profession and can just give advice or say, hey, I think that's the right direction for you. That sounds like something that you could do well and effective. And it amazes me how often I do have clients over the years that have contacted me prior to leaving a company because they just wanted to talk through it, make sure that the decision they've made feels right.
And I'm like, I'm just your vendor. But when you develop those personal types of relationships with people, they're absolutely gonna open up to you and they're gonna talk about those things. And I think those things are important to talk about, especially when you know you can talk about it in a confidential way. And as a third party vendor, I literally am not even part of the organization. It's not like I'm gonna go talk to somebody. And so I think that's why there's such this value of the consultants because now I can have those conversations.

Beca Mark (51:23.209)
Yes.

Steven Smith (51:32.258)
without the fear of retaliation and all of those things that sometimes we feel internally in our own organization. And I'm telling you, they feel that, which is probably why they open up to me sometimes. And I'm okay with it. I'm okay with that they open up, but it amazes me how many do open up because sometimes I'm not expecting, I should expect it by now. I've experienced this for 20 years, but it still amazes me that some of these people that I'm just like, you are a.

Beca Mark (51:51.519)
Yeah.

Steven Smith (51:56.846)
high level, you're like the chief human resource officer at your organization, you're now coming to me just to talk about wanting to make a move because you have nobody else you can talk to about it. It just boggles my mind, but then I get it at the same time because they want that personal relationship and they just want to be able to open up.

Beca Mark (52:10.089)
Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (52:14.795)
has got something on the tip of her tongue I can see it working there.

Beca Mark (52:15.520)
Great point.

Steven Smith (52:16.748)
She's thinking something, I see it.

Beca Mark (52:18.122)
I am thinking 10 things at once. I have so many thoughts from how do you become that trusted individual being a consultant, even though you're neutral party, you're still one step away from the company. Even the neutral party does bridge a gap. So how do you do it? that's how I like to say, like with Megastar HR, when we get on, let's say a sales call, we were talking to an organization last week. um

Steven Smith (52:21.133)
Hahaha

Steven Smith (52:27.331)
Hmm?

Steven Smith (52:33.262)
Mm-hmm.

Beca Mark (52:47.756)
I want them to, I want it to feel like I am internal. So then my question is like, what is not working internal that they would be open to an external, but they still want it to feel internal. They want it to feel, anyway, that's one of my questions, yeah.

Steven Smith (53:4.172)
No, you're absolutely right, Becca, because I do that all the time on the hiring side of things. I I sell a hiring software, right?
But at the end of the day, if my software is not the right software for you, I'm not gonna be pushy about it. I just wanna give you some feedback and actually help you discuss that from an internal perspective, because I've been doing this for so long, I could probably help give you some advice. mean, do you know how many people I've talked to over the years that could have been a potential client, but they just didn't become one because it wasn't a fit or it wasn't the right, and I'm okay to say no to people, right? If it's not a good fit, go find something that's worthwhile. And I think that's why I've been able to develop the relationships I've been able to develop.

Beca Mark (53:10.463)
Yeah.

Beca Mark (53:34.260)
Yeah.

Steven Smith (53:40.300)
because I'm not this pushy salesperson. I just want to hear, help me understand your hiring process. I've consulted with hundreds of companies all over the country now with my speaking and all of that. And I just go in and I'll teach and train and sometimes we'll just do virtual calls and I'll help. And that's all they needed. They didn't need my software. They didn't need my business. They just needed somebody that could look at my process. Where am I missing the mark? And what are some things I can do to help mitigate this?
help make it better, make it more efficient without sometimes necessarily buying something else because either we don't have the budget or it's unaffordable. And I'll tell you, some of those clients, years later, they become a client, right?

Beca Mark (54:20.692)
Yeah, I was gonna say, like that develops true trust. Like that's long-term approach. that's, cause then you get clients for life. Then you get clients that are, I don't know, yeah.

Steven Smith (54:25.692)
Absolutely.
Mm hmm. I still I still care. One of my clients, Kara, she I've been in touch with her since like 2009 when she was just starting her career and she still calls me and she's been at four or five different companies since then. She still contacts me because she trusts me and I appreciate and value that trust and I never want to violate that type of trust. Right. And so, yeah, I mean, even as consultants, we have to be aware that there is a trust factor there.
And you have to prove it. You're not going to be this pushy person, you know, so because we're all in sales, technically. mean, all of us consultants on this call, we're in that arena. And yeah, we have to have that element of trust. Sometimes we have to give for free at first. Right. I don't always like that part because I got to make a living. I got three girls and all that fun stuff. But I'll tell you that that trust factory has gone a long way for me in my career. So um I'm with you on that. Yeah, I'm with you on that. So.

Beca Mark (55:1.811)
Yeah.

Beca Mark (55:7.232)
Yep. Yep.

Beca Mark (55:24.266)
Well that's a swell of you. Yeah, big swell of you.

Tony Benjamin (55:28.441)
Becca had lots of thoughts. If I know Becca, she wrote all of her thoughts down before she got on tonight, did you? Yeah, see? This is why we love you. You're awesome. You're awesome. Did you want to say anything else about that, about the future of consulting and stuff?

Beca Mark (55:35.294)
Yes, it's seven pages long. Yeah. They're here. Yeah.
Let's see, let me consult my on my notes. No, I just think, I just think you're right. I think you're right. think it's, were at the forefront in 2016 and then now it's really becoming a viable option for a lot of companies and even a viable option long-term, not even to make a change when they get large enough where someone would normally-

Tony Benjamin (55:49.593)
Sorry not to call you out. I'm just impressed. Thank you.

Beca Mark (56:14.176)
take someone internal. Anyway, so that's what I'm trying to figure out is how to maximize that and how to provide a service that like you have an organization and not every organization, I mean in every organization you have high achievers and it's like a bell curve, right? And you have a lot of average achievers and then you have some that aren't performing and you're always working with those. We always should be working with everyone but...
Like how do you become the HR consultant? They're not all the same, just like employees aren't all the same. Like there are high performing, so I'm trying to figure out how to be the high performing, that high performing employee, and how do you do it as an HR consultant? uh I've still got a lot to learn, but we're figuring it out.

Tony Benjamin (57:1.113)
Yeah, and how do you not devolve into a PEO? That's the right. So many HR consultancies devolved into PEOs. And I get why they did it. There's lots of money there. There's a lot of money there. I just don't think it best serves the companies. I just don't.

Beca Mark (57:5.054)
Yeah.

Steven Smith (57:6.126)
Yeah.

Beca Mark (57:17.644)
I totally agree. we just brought on a client. um It's a hotel hospitality group in Silicon Valley. And they have a PEO. They pay for full PEO. And they still are not getting the service that they need. So they pay for us in addition to have someone. And it blows my mind.

Tony Benjamin (57:42.641)
It's because the PEO, yeah, it's because their interests are not the PEO's interest or not their interests. Yep. Yep. Yep.

Steven Smith (57:42.978)
Wow.

Steven Smith (57:48.046)
They're not theirs. It's very true. It's very true.

Beca Mark (57:52.426)
I've been shocked to have in, yeah, I've been amazed by this anyway the last few weeks, but anyway, we don't need.

Steven Smith (57:57.954)
No, and Becca, you bring up a great point there, right? If you're gonna be a goods consultant and you wanna be that high achiever, I think the biggest thing is listening. I have found in my career, hearing them out and then helping, and sometimes helping them define their own problems because they sometimes don't even know how to articulate it.

Beca Mark (58:8.189)
Oh yeah! uh

Steven Smith (58:19.502)
And when you can help them articulate that and it's like this light bulb, oh my gosh, that's exactly what I'm experiencing. OK, well now we can come to a resolution. Now we can talk about here's what we here's the steps we can take to get to that stage, right? To become more efficient. And I think that's huge, like helping them verbalize and vocalize that themselves, because sometimes as consultants and even in sales, we have a tendency to listen and then we just make this assumption that, oh, I've got another client had that same experience and we just jump

Beca Mark (58:34.719)
Yeah.

Steven Smith (58:49.326)
right into that without hearing the full story first. We just want to take that one little chunk and be like, oh, I can help with that. Oh, oh, I can help with that. And we almost get like a little too giddy excited about it when we need to hear the full story and really truly listen before we start jumping to, oh, okay, here's some recommendations. Here's some suggestions, right? So I love that. I love that.

Beca Mark (59:12.308)
I think you're spot on. was just taking some notes. I think that was, that's great. Yeah. I love it.

Tony Benjamin (59:19.065)
So so Becca, right, right, right. Becca, um boy, we still have a whole bunch of stuff that we wanted to talk about that we didn't get to. We're going to grab you again, I think, and throw you on this. um The podcast, the podcast will start airing soon. We're going to start promoting it. And because we're recording this tonight, we have two more recordings tomorrow. um And then I have three other people that are on the hook to be signed up or.

Steven Smith (59:19.099)
Now it's eight pages.

Beca Mark (59:21.150)
That's eight pages. Yeah.

Steven Smith (59:29.922)
Mm-hmm.

Beca Mark (59:30.430)
Okay. Anytime. My pleasure.

Steven Smith (59:41.230)
Mm-hmm.

Beca Mark (59:41.781)
Awesome.

Tony Benjamin (59:45.763)
be on with us after that. we'll start we'll start airing very soon. Question for you as we're kind of winding this up a little bit. What what are you doing next? Like is there something you want to tell us about that you're excited about that's coming next for you or Megastar?

Beca Mark (60:2.176)
I just am looking to grow and grow and grow. To um touch as many missions as possible is what I'm doing next. That's really all I think about day and night. One thing we've done, which I think is pretty slick or whatnot, we've developed an amazing HR audit product or practice. That is something we're infusing now even into our clients that we've had for a while. It's been pretty awesome.
that to make sure our companies really are covered and that we get we really do infuse values into culture and all of that from pushing the buttons in the system to actually influencing culture it's it's it's it's I think a pretty great product that we've landed on

Steven Smith (60:49.171)
I'm curious, what is one thing in that audit that you have found, or maybe two items, I don't know, but at least one in particular that stands out that feels like it's made a huge impact on all of your clients that you've worked with so far?

Beca Mark (61:3.506)
I've been shocked, like we always start out with compliance and we can't really move to the next level as the compliance is there and I've been shocked how many really aren't checking all the boxes. So just having that alone, it frees, if you never get past that compliance level, once you do and we know we're past it, it frees everything else up. And so that's been kind of cool to see where they really feel comfortable with where they are and what they have because then everything in an owner's mind that they've been wanting
wanting to do and why they started the company and all these cool ideas they have, if I can get help on a weekend or the team at Megastar, we can get them past that compliance level. It's been like the whole world kind of opens up. um And then it turns into, okay, this is how we can have really a strategic way to do performance management or really a strategic way to.
drive um like I'm working with a company right now on developing incentive plans, compensation plans, but you cannot get there unless you know, like the owner is so worried about protecting what they're growing and building. I don't know if that even is saying things to check a box, but it's that compliance level I've been amazed by, yeah.

Tony Benjamin (62:15.065)
Fascinating. That would make sense. That's the stool that they stand on em or the hurdle or the step that they clear before they can think about other stuff.

Steven Smith (62:17.070)
Cool, yeah.

Beca Mark (62:27.206)
And knowing that the boxes have been checked and that there's a plan in place is what it, the peace of mind that I think they get is invaluable.

Steven Smith (62:35.150)
Yeah, I was gonna say, so it doesn't seem so complicated, right? Like it really isn't as complex as I think sometimes they make it. And having somebody, you know, professional come in, right? Yeah.

Beca Mark (62:40.914)
No. It's not.

Tony Benjamin (62:43.959)
No matter. I was just guess right right. I was just gonna say the number one mantra I try to teach my clients is that happy employees don't sue you. So build a relationship with your employees employees help them to respect you and like you and you guys work as partners together and then they won't sue you. You can mess up on their pay. You can you can flub their benefits. You can do so many things that might get you sued but they'll never sue you if they like you.

Steven Smith (62:53.678)
Mm-hmm.

Tony Benjamin (63:14.017)
if there's a good relationship and they feel like they're part of a partnership. And I that I always tell my that's the number one thing you got to do in your compliance is happy employees don't sue. And if they're not happy, you got problems other places. So but that's okay. Well, thank you, Becca. I think that's fantastic. um And thank you for being here with this. I think I think that that for sure. um

Beca Mark (63:29.781)
Love it.

Tony Benjamin (63:40.995)
you know, the crowd's gonna go wild again for Becca. There she is, right? Everybody knows that's Becca Mark everybody. um

Beca Mark (63:52.032)
gonna play cheering in the mornings for myself. I think that might change my world. That was awesome. Thank you, Tony. No, thank you, Steve, too. I... Yeah. Well, yeah.

Steven Smith (63:55.394)
You totally should.

Steven Smith (63:59.884)
telling you we have a great studio audience it's amazing here.

Tony Benjamin (64:0.013)
Yeah.
Yeah, right, right. Yeah. And we don't even have to give them things like Oprah does. They just like us. ah No, that's that's fascinating. Thank you for being with this. And once again, I just want to express my admiration for what you do. I think it's fantastic having having seen your business. And and you and I have never talked about how successful and how much revenue you have and all that. But I but I can tell that your business is growing um just how often that I

Steven Smith (64:7.746)
I know.

Beca Mark (64:14.368)
Thank you.

Tony Benjamin (64:32.281)
bump into your influence somewhere. And that's quite remarkable. So you're doing a very good job. And I hope this discussion was helpful for listeners in that too. um Steve could be funnier in that he could crack more jokes. That's right. Stickers and water bottles. That's right.

Beca Mark (64:36.981)
awesome.

Steven Smith (64:44.514)
Yeah, I struggle. I struggle. I just want to talk about the cutesy stuff. That's my problem.

Beca Mark (64:46.001)
Yeah, get on that steam.

Beca Mark (64:53.587)
Yeah, exactly.

Steven Smith (64:54.254)
And you know, next time we talk, Becca, we'll have to tell him how you and I connected through your dad.

Tony Benjamin (64:59.535)
Oh, tell this story, okay, now that you mentioned that, really quick, tell this story. Go ahead, go ahead, you're good.

Beca Mark (64:59.964)
Oh yeah!
Yeah, I mean he hired and fired my dad.

Steven Smith (65:4.376)
So, yeah, so years ago, years ago, I worked for a company called True North Academy and they did a lot of education stuff and Gary Stegel was there and uh I hired him. I was the recruiter at the time. In fact, I had gone in as a consulting role and was trying to help them understand how to better recruit people. And they just finally said, shoot, we're just going to hire you. We can't do this anymore. We just need you just come in. And Gary was one of the first interviews I had. We hired him in.

Tony Benjamin (65:7.214)
Whoa.

Steven Smith (65:32.654)
He became a manager. did a lot of our training and all of that for a while. And then unfortunately, after about a year and a half, the company lost a major, probably 83 % of their business was with one particular investor. And when that was gone, I had to lay people off like crazy. And in fact, there was one day we laid off like 60 people in one day. It was just, it was a rough day because that same day, I got laid off the same day. So anyway, so yeah, so I hired and fired him.

Tony Benjamin (65:57.487)
Yep, yep.

Beca Mark (65:58.463)
Yeah.

Beca Mark (66:2.193)
Yeah, you heard about my dad.

Tony Benjamin (66:4.399)
And then you then you have the good sense of fire yourself after.

Beca Mark (66:5.748)
don't love you, you know? You know that you have a good m HR or good professional, an amazing professional when they still love you. Anyway, you know? Yeah.

Steven Smith (66:14.818)
Oh, that's awesome. I love Gary. Gary was so good to work with. He, you know, and I'll be honest, he taught me so much. I was, I was fairly new in my career. I had only been in recruiting for maybe four or five years. And so I was still fairly new as well. And, and he really taught me how to effectively work with people. Like, like he's the manager. I'm working with him. We're bringing on other people that he's going to be training. And if I'm going to effectively hire the right people, I can't just hire just people just because I have to hire people.
that Gary can then take and effectively train and manage and actually put into the company. And that's where I really learned how to effectively work with managers and understand where they're coming from so that we hire the right people for the manager, right? Because they're managing their department and it was different. I had to learn from all the different managers in those departments, but Gary, that's what I loved about him is he really taught me how to effectively communicate with those people. So it was fun. It was a lot of fun, yeah.

Beca Mark (67:11.612)
awesome. Thanks Steve. Yeah I'll make sure to let him know and yeah.

Tony Benjamin (67:13.835)
immortalized.

Steven Smith (67:14.904)
Please do, please do, because he's just one of those people I still remember to this day. So when Beck and I first met and suddenly it triggered, oh. Yeah, as soon as that triggered, we're like, oh my gosh, there's a connection. There is, fun. It was a fun connection.

Beca Mark (67:23.230)
Yeah, I saw True North Academy. I know that you, yeah, yeah.

Beca Mark (67:30.954)
Yeah, small rod. Yeah.

Tony Benjamin (67:32.193)
It is a small world, especially when you're in HR. That's that's kind of my philosophy about that. um Yeah. Matter of fact, we ought to do a podcast just sometime on networking and how that really works. um Anyways, thank you, Becca, again, for being here. We really appreciate it. And uh we'll go out the way we came in, I guess. Thanks for for doing this with us. It was uh great.

Beca Mark (67:44.576)
was a great idea.

Steven Smith (67:45.218)
Imagine that.

Beca Mark (67:48.010)
Thanks, Tony.

Tony Benjamin (67:57.625)
Thanks everybody for joining us on the HR life podcast. We'll talk to you again soon.

Beca Mark (68:3.712)
Thank you.

Steven Smith (68:5.976)
Bye.